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Library => Hosted Project Archive => Topic started by: Osnr on January 04, 2003, 04:15:54 am



Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on January 04, 2003, 04:15:54 am
This is the official project communication thread for KidOS. See our SourceForge entry at  (http://).

Web site page with list of KidOS sites:  (http://)


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on January 04, 2003, 07:51:39 am
Man, your link is wrong.  It is to some add pop up crap.  Please change it.  (http://)


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on January 04, 2003, 07:54:19 am
What happened to the developer forum on SF?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on January 04, 2003, 07:54:53 am
Oh, wait.  I wasn\'t logged in.  Oops


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: aafuss on January 04, 2003, 10:28:56 am
Hows the login screen, going Omar-any screenshots for all to see yet?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on January 04, 2003, 05:41:18 pm
Well, I\'m still looking into a way to store users. It could be delimited ASCII, an INI, or the registry.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on January 04, 2003, 10:17:16 pm
Lets go with INI.  They are easy, and most everyone knows them.  If you want, make up a new extention for them, like .kid  Then we can change the file association for .kid to open KidOS for that user.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on January 04, 2003, 10:17:51 pm
Oh, and don\'t worry too much right now on logging them in, just work on the layout.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: aafuss on January 05, 2003, 04:51:33 am
Quote
Originally posted by blindlizard
Lets go with INI.  They are easy, and most everyone knows them.  If you want, make up a new extention for them, like .kid  Then we can change the file association for .kid to open KidOS for that user.

I strongly agree-.ini files are universlky used for storing settiinfs-let\'s use them.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on January 05, 2003, 12:07:29 pm
Universally? Everyone uses the Registry :P

Yeah, let\'s use INI files. The problem is the login screen needs to be built from the INI. We can\'t just hard-code users and change it later.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on January 05, 2003, 04:44:58 pm
Ok, then run it off an INI.  We need to encrypt passwords then.  Nothing too fancy, maybe RC4.  I will build an enrryption DLL off of RC4.  For now, just save the passwords as plain text.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on January 05, 2003, 05:36:57 pm
Now for the UI. Should we copy AOL, MSN, or Windows? Or should we combine the three?

For one thing, we can drop all Windows standards if we want. I mean, a kid won\'t give a **** about Win32 standards.

We could provide two interfaces for kids, one with the modern Windows look for older kids, and another with the style of MSN Explorer for younger kids.

Also, our Parental Controls must follow Windows standards, because adults are used to the normal Windows UI.

What do you think of these design suggestions?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: aafuss on January 05, 2003, 10:06:59 pm
A combintion of tyhree sryles, is mjy ptreference-maybe a luottle of ,inux login/nacosx login style too.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on January 05, 2003, 11:08:41 pm
Yeah, for the Parent Section we can worry about Windows standards, but for the Kid part, make it big, colorful, and fun.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on January 05, 2003, 11:32:40 pm
Oh and give keyboard shortcuts for everything. Younger kids won\'t know how to use the mouse.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on January 05, 2003, 11:33:28 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Osnr
Oh and give keyboard shortcuts for everything. Younger kids won\'t know how to use the mouse.
Actually I found my kids figured out the mouse way before the keyboard.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on January 06, 2003, 01:18:20 am
My brother hates the mouse :D


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on January 06, 2003, 01:18:50 am
How old is he?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on January 06, 2003, 02:33:18 am
Well, you have to cater to all ages. 3 :D


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on January 06, 2003, 04:31:43 am
That is true.  I imagin that really small children wont really know what they are doing.  For them be can just have sounds and pictures come up when they hit anything.  Oh, and my oldest son was using the mouse at 3.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on January 06, 2003, 11:22:28 am
Heh :)

I could read at 2, know what I was doing on the computer at 4,  and program VB at 5.

I\'m not joking :p.

One more thing, what about implementing help? HTML/WinHelp for parental controls and MS Agent help for kids\' accounts?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on January 06, 2003, 02:56:29 pm
aaahhh yes help.  What does everyone think?  HTML help that runs through the KidOS browser?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: cbond on January 06, 2003, 08:35:55 pm
HTML in our browser is probably the best.  That way we keep total control of the look and feel of it.

It isn\'t going to be realy fancy I\'m sure, but still we don\'t want the next up grade to Internet Exploder to kill our help files.

By the way - I took a shower and put some deodorant on prior to posting this in hopes that I won\'t scare you all of to another forum again.   :)


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: cbond on January 06, 2003, 08:36:35 pm
How did you guys get your post counts to carry over?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on January 06, 2003, 08:48:36 pm
Post a link to your VBForums profile here  (http://)


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on January 06, 2003, 08:49:24 pm
Hey, I wonder how many forums we can start our discussion on? :angel:


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: aafuss on January 07, 2003, 03:23:01 am
Can I write themes, id a ,later version support it?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on January 07, 2003, 03:06:03 pm
Let\'s just use the Windows theme system. There is a command-line switch to apply a desktop theme (using theme.exe).


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on January 07, 2003, 03:14:18 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Osnr
Let\'s just use the Windows theme system. There is a command-line switch to apply a desktop theme (using theme.exe).
I don\'t like using the Windows theme becuase that is going to change the rest of thier system.  Also, there are going to be multiple users of KidOS and not necessarily multiple Windows accounts.  I would rather make our own KidOS theme system.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on January 07, 2003, 03:16:51 pm
That brings a considerable problem...

We need someone to develop VB control replacements, with an integrated theme system from scratch.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on January 07, 2003, 03:18:55 pm
Why do we need to change controls?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: cbond on January 07, 2003, 06:25:43 pm
Are you talking about just chaning the look of the controls or how the actually function?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on January 07, 2003, 07:00:45 pm
The look.  What I am thinking is only chagne a few properties when it comes to themes.  First, the color of the control.  Second, the font color. Third, the font size.  Finally, the size of the control.  Basicly what changes when you right click on the windows desktop, and go to appearance.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on January 08, 2003, 01:46:40 am
Well, here are some controls/UI elements we at least need to replace:

Command button: Edge doesn\'t change with BackColor, and no
     ForeColor property. (To aafuss: we have no use for XP skins,
     so the PSC control is useless)
Title bar: This is easy with a few shapes and buttons (normal VB).
     We need to change its color, so this is the easiest way to do it.
Listview: Extremely hard to rewrite in VB, but it provides the basic
     KidOS interface, and needs to be recreated with kids in mind.
Line: Very simple, just a nice extension to make KidOS more
     pleasing to the users.

OK?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: aafuss on January 08, 2003, 02:32:02 am
Can we make it luke at wase 9old apple progrsm[for kids, vasically-a id fuenfly ui for macs)?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on January 08, 2003, 03:02:18 am
what???  I have no idea what you just said


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on January 09, 2003, 10:38:12 pm
How are things going?  We haven\'t talked in a couple of days.  I just wanted to see the status of things.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Sastraxi on January 10, 2003, 02:57:45 am
I believe he was inquiring if you could make it look like a mac program (because they are user-friendly).


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on January 10, 2003, 03:25:16 am
Yeah, I finally figured that out.  Glad you stopped by to help.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on January 10, 2003, 06:24:21 pm
Well, sorry for being away for a little while, I was ill :(

I agree, let\'s make it a bit like a Mac. I wouldn\'t go too far, though. The Macintosh has some confusing aspects. We should customize the controls to suit kids, not to look like Mac controls.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on January 11, 2003, 04:18:56 am
I think we need to make it Kid friendly.  Mac or Windows, I don\'t think either of them have come close.  We need to make our own look and feel and not just grab some old way of doing things.  The new XP look is getting there, but I think we can do better.  We need to think outside the box (desktop) :)


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on January 12, 2003, 02:27:11 pm
OK, I\'m thinking in the monitor instead of the box. :D

Well, the look is one thing. We still need to find the easiest way for a kid to interact with KidOS through the mouse/monitor. We need to simplify the Windows control model.

For one thing, the concept of switching control focus... Some kids won\'t know how to read, and therefore will not know how to change the active control. Remember, these are complete beginners we\'re talking about.

Also I think that parents should be able to unlock UI levels, so you\'d begin with the easiest UI, and move up to Windows standard interface.

Finally, we need icons. Any good icon designers here?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on January 13, 2003, 05:42:38 am
Quote
Originally posted by Osnr
OK, I\'m thinking in the monitor instead of the box. :D

Well, the look is one thing. We still need to find the easiest way for a kid to interact with KidOS through the mouse/monitor. We need to simplify the Windows control model.

For one thing, the concept of switching control focus... Some kids won\'t know how to read, and therefore will not know how to change the active control. Remember, these are complete beginners we\'re talking about.

Also I think that parents should be able to unlock UI levels, so you\'d begin with the easiest UI, and move up to Windows standard interface.

Finally, we need icons. Any good icon designers here?
Exactly


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on January 14, 2003, 12:56:09 am
OK, any other ideas?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on January 15, 2003, 07:27:43 pm
We had a tip at VBF putting the exe in the system32 folder and changing this key [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINESOFTWAREMicrosoftWindows NTCurrentVersionWinlogon]
\"Shell\"=\"YourOwnShell.exe\" will replace Explorer on XP and 2K


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on January 15, 2003, 10:02:47 pm
Great! We have a shell replacement. Anyone have an NT4 system for testing?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on January 15, 2003, 11:24:13 pm
If we are going the shell replacment route we need to add something to the login that lets them change back to Explorer easily


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: aafuss on January 16, 2003, 07:39:08 pm
Well, I have seen a XP pc while I was away-but anyway I can test KidOS on 98SE-as it\'s what I ise


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on January 16, 2003, 10:22:50 pm
Extremely easy. We just launch Explorer.exe. To remove taskbar/start menu, we kill Explorer.exe.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on January 16, 2003, 11:26:45 pm
I have Windows ME, Windows XP, Windows 98 (First Edition), Windows for Workgroups 3.11, MS-DOS 6.22, and Red Hat Linux 8.0.

Currently the only OSs I have in use are WinXP and MS-DOS 7 from Win98. Now if I could only get a partition manager and another disk for multi-OS FAT16 storage, my newer computer (I have 2) could manage a dual boot.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: aafuss on January 17, 2003, 04:18:01 am
OK, has anything been started on the kidos GUI  yet?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on January 18, 2003, 03:46:35 am
I\'m afraid I\'ve been delayed, due to illness, on the login screen. I\'ll continue once I get well again.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on January 20, 2003, 03:47:12 am
You know what would be really cool?  If we did this in Java.  Then it could be a Kid Interface for any OS. :evil


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: aafuss on January 20, 2003, 06:10:53 am
No, then web would need a trotal rewrite-and some of may not know java.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on January 20, 2003, 03:01:16 pm
This is a good chance to learn it :)


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on January 20, 2003, 08:43:47 pm
A total rewrite? We haven\'t even written anything. :D

However, what kid games are there for other platforms? The only other one is DOS, which is braindead when it comes to GUIs.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on January 20, 2003, 10:00:29 pm
I\'m sure Mac has a ton.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: aafuss on January 21, 2003, 04:12:21 am
We;l, seeing aS we will juse vb-why not some do up sime graphics abd starty to do some  coding-java isn\'yt really suited to shelln replacements-as they need to be an excecutable format,


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on January 21, 2003, 03:36:22 pm
Java can be in an executable format.  There are many stand alone applications written in Java.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on January 21, 2003, 05:35:56 pm
However, is there such a thing as a Mac shell replacement? And, we would waste time using Java, when it can be more easily done in VB.

By the way, where\'s cbond & techgnome?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on January 21, 2003, 07:33:51 pm
For other OSs we would have to replace anything.  Just run our app on top of everything else.  I don\'t think it would be a waste of time to get Java experience.

I haven\'t heard from either of them in a while.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: aafuss on January 21, 2003, 09:56:17 pm
I forget, un;less the user has the Java run5kme installed-no wau tpomrun java unless the os has it built in-and the vb runtime toabiout 1 mb. I think Java is tooadvanced to code a shell reopplacement-it\'s mainly for data based/web appl;ets. Fklash isn\'t  that suiotable. while in vb it\'s more eaisly one. But thwn mac os x is built ontop UNIX-as ids  linux -so, any filer system commands would have to work with os we are using. And I think macs don\'t have a need for aletrgabnative-no bujuoltin siypport-like forlinux, it would need to work withos, and it would neeed troi come a distrinyation. Si use vvb0-let\'s just do a windows varsion fioest, future we can di a nultoplatform vwersion?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on January 22, 2003, 10:35:39 pm
Uh... Java doesn\'t need the VB runtime. A language can never be too advanced.  People write shells in C++, which is far more advanced (but that\'s a different topic altogether).  We also won\'t need the file system except for INI & program launch. Anyway, let\'s stop this pointless debate and use VB.

Well, are they still in the project?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on January 22, 2003, 10:42:37 pm
VB is fine.  

I have no idea.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: aafuss on January 23, 2003, 12:10:46 am
OK, Agreed-we\'ll use vb-I know many vb code-eg. suse the shell api call to run a program:
like
dim spotexe as variant
spotexe= shell(c:myapp.exe) -or something like that. Also ewhat colors will the interface use?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on January 23, 2003, 03:47:44 pm
I think we need to not concern ourselves with the colors or control sizes.  We need to insted focus on a way to change control size and color based on the users settings.  We need to define an ini file or something that will tell all ourr forms what background colors, what forcolors, what fonts, what sizes, etc...


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on January 23, 2003, 09:49:34 pm
We also need to concern ourselves with another issue. What if the parent\'s shell isn\'t Explorer?

KidOS.ini:

[Users]
Mom=\"C:Program FilesKidOSUsersMomuser.ini\"
Dad=\"C:Program FilesKidOSUsersDaduser.ini\"
Me=\"C:Program FilesKidosUsersMeuser.ini\"

[Binaries]
KOSLogin=\"C:Program FilesKidOSKOSLogin.exe\"
ParentShell=\"C:WindowsExplorer.exe\"
KidShell=\"C:Program FilesKidOSKShell.exe\"
AddInInterface=\"C:Program FIlesKidOSAddIn.exe\"

Well, want to add anything? User-specific settings like themes are in the user.ini files, and the login theme is set from Parental Controls which has its own INI as well as this one.

The binaries section is for \"sub-shell\" replacements that use KidOS\'s login system, settings, and themes, but replace the kid shell.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: aafuss on January 23, 2003, 09:49:45 pm
What abvout support for the new xp coomon controls-with a .manifest file abd related code?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: aafuss on January 23, 2003, 09:53:10 pm
Current .ini file settings look fine-well, wer could have also where kidops is installed to in the .ini file.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on January 23, 2003, 10:09:04 pm
We can\'t support XP manifest, our theme system overrules it.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on January 23, 2003, 10:17:36 pm
We need general settings so all the forms for each user will have the same basic look.

C:Program FilesKidOSUsersKidBasicLook.ini

[Containers]
BackColor=\"COLOR_HEX\"
ForeColor=\"COLOR_HEX\"
Font=\"FONT_NAME\"

[Controls]
BackColor=\"COLOR_HEX\"
ForeColor=\"COLOR_HEX\"
Font=\"FONT_NAME\"


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on January 23, 2003, 10:20:54 pm
I disagree with that. What if one kid wants these colors, and anither wants different colors?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on January 23, 2003, 10:28:00 pm
Kid was just a placeholder.  C:Program FilesKidOSUsersKid1BasicLook.ini
C:Program FilesKidOSUsersKid2BasicLook.ini
C:Program FilesKidOSUsersMomBasicLook.ini
C:Program FilesKidOSUsersDadBasicLook.ini
C:Program FilesKidOSUsersGuestBasicLook.ini
Each has thier own ini


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: aafuss on January 24, 2003, 01:20:17 am
Well,can\'t we have a xp style theme-and if we used a custom conrtrol for the buttons, it woulkd need to support our theming system (also the ;pastenrt\'s system should use the newer custom controls-klids part uses the themeing system that kidos will use).


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on January 24, 2003, 08:37:37 pm
Yes, we *design* the custom controls, and we could have an XP style theme, but no manifest files.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: aafuss on January 24, 2003, 08:40:37 pm
Great idea-Omar. Whsat kind theme will the parent secytion use?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on January 24, 2003, 08:54:36 pm
We need to just come up with 5 or 6 themes.  The parents can pick from those.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on January 24, 2003, 09:33:57 pm
The parents section has no theme. I feel themes in the parent section are dumb. I mean, Windows has a system for that.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on January 24, 2003, 09:44:02 pm
if we are going to go to the trouble of making a theme engine, why not let the parents use it too?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on January 24, 2003, 11:42:11 pm
Because it\'s nonstandard. Parental Controls is a normal WIndows app. KidOS is a shell. Big difference there.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: aafuss on January 25, 2003, 02:25:35 am
I


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on January 25, 2003, 02:28:10 am
Uh.. yes?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: aafuss on January 25, 2003, 02:58:30 am
I think kidos should use a sytandard interfsace-for the parents only, the kud\'s part shouldv be themable.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on January 25, 2003, 03:19:25 am
I just said that!


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on January 25, 2003, 06:27:07 pm
All I am saying is that sure the parents app by default can look like the rest of their system, but why not give them the ability to theme it like the KidOS part?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on January 25, 2003, 06:29:21 pm
Windows does have a thmeing system of its own the parents would use that works on every app. Our theming system would only be used by people with Win95 minus Plus! - something we\'re unlikely to support with something of this type.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on January 25, 2003, 06:31:31 pm
No, our theme system will be for anyone.  It will allow for larger buttons and text.  It doesn\'t matter if they have plus or XP, they will use our theme on the KidOS part.  That is the whole point of KidOS, to make it kid friendly not windows themeable


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on January 25, 2003, 06:35:48 pm
No, I\'m talking about the parents.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on January 25, 2003, 06:37:20 pm
I think we shouldn\'t replace the Windows login screen. Tell the parents to install it as Administrator, then set the Administrator account to automatically login with the password provided by parent.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: aafuss on January 25, 2003, 09:19:46 pm
Osnr, Iabout your lastpost-not a good idea-what if the family only has Windows 98 or me installed-then thoe users don\'t have anytthing to dpo hve a adminstrator account (see 9.x is not nbased on NT). We wpuld neeed a login splution that would compatioble with Windows 95-XP.  And what about password protection, for someofd the featurews-any good ideas. And also, when could we start to get some cpoding time-a long time getting ideas, but besaring no fruit (software-bearing no fruit-a saying).


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on January 25, 2003, 11:49:34 pm
Uh.. under 95/98/Me everyone has the rights of an NT admin. You should know that.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on January 26, 2003, 01:13:30 am
We have to replace the login.  That is the point.  If my computer gets logged out, I don\'t want my kids to come to me to log it back in.  I want then to click on thier icon and go to KidOS.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on January 26, 2003, 02:05:46 am
You can\'t replace the login. Under NT/2k (not XP), kids won\'t have any idea how to use the normal login screen. This is why I suggest to leave the setup of automatically logging in WIndows to the parent and just make our login screeen.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on January 26, 2003, 06:21:46 pm
Oh, ok.  So insted of replacing the loggin screen, we automaticly log them in, then show ours?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on January 26, 2003, 07:41:36 pm
Yes.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on January 26, 2003, 09:32:26 pm
Ok, that sounds easier. :thumb:


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: aafuss on January 31, 2003, 07:08:32 am
I nhave to agree with the new login solution-what about say for example, any work/ideas started/for the kidops main desktop?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on January 31, 2003, 07:33:37 pm
Well I think it should have a navigation bar at the top with bttons for each section, i.e. games, music, video, etc.  Clicking on each of these will chagne the destop to whatever was picked.  So you click on games, and you get a desktop with all game icons.  Maybe even change the background (images or color).  The nav bar should allow for the parents to add or remove sections.  If there are too many sections to fit accross on the screen, it sould scroll.  I am attching a really basic mockup.  Of course it would not have a title bar, and would look better.:D


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on January 31, 2003, 09:13:56 pm
Maybe we should implement skins. The normal Windows UI looks dorky (see above), and these are kids we\'re talking about. We could give an option to disable skinning.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: aafuss on January 31, 2003, 10:36:54 pm
Interesting interface design-lovely!   So how do we go about coding the skinning system.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on February 01, 2003, 03:13:58 am
The image was just to demonstrate the nav bar.  The bar will be graphical not dumb ass buttons:p
The entire interface will be graphical.  We need to get someone that can make nice button schemes.  That is where the themeing comes into play.  I fugure we make 3 or 4 different icon and color sets and distribute them with KidOS.  Then we can put out an SDK so parents can build thier own schemes.  The point is we need to come up with a themeing system (not Windows themes), and code the interface generic like above.  The scheming system will transform the ugly normal interface into a kid friendly graphical one at run time.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on February 01, 2003, 03:19:02 am
So our theming system is a combo of skinning and WIndows themes?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on February 01, 2003, 03:27:46 am
Kind of.  Except it won\'t be like Winamp skinning where it make one big image.  Insted it will change navigation stuff.  Kind of like what happens on this forum if you go into the control panel and change the style set.  It changes the colors and the navigation icons.  Also, our theming can change the size of the navigation system.  So for little kids the buttons will be really big.  For older kids, the buttons can be scaled down to a more windows standard size.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on February 01, 2003, 03:28:26 am
I posted a request for gaphic design at galah  (http://)


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on February 01, 2003, 03:30:08 am
Well, don\'t expect me at Galah. I don\'t play around with bright and bouncy things. :D


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on February 01, 2003, 03:31:40 am
No, we don\'t have to go there.  If they want to help, they can come here.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on February 01, 2003, 03:36:23 am
OK then. But I don\'t know if graphic designers do technical stuff :)


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on February 01, 2003, 03:37:47 am
They don\'t have to.  They just need to make graphics.  We can take care of the technical stuff.  We can even dumb down the techie talk with them. :thumb:


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on February 01, 2003, 03:52:27 am
Well, we\'ll need a translator for them, any volunteers (I\'m terrible with this)? :thumb:


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on February 01, 2003, 03:53:51 am
Hey, if we keep talkin smack about them, they won\'t help:angel:


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on February 01, 2003, 03:55:08 am
Okey dokey ;)

We need icons. Lots of them.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: aafuss on February 01, 2003, 05:04:08 am
Do you know how many icons kidos will require yet? Any other ideas how the KidOS desktop could look like?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on February 01, 2003, 05:11:28 am
Well, we need Start-menu-type icons for the nav bar. And we\'ll probably need a KidOS EXE icon, and a set of icons for selecting a picture for each kid.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: aafuss on February 01, 2003, 05:29:18 am
Has anyone offered to create icons yet?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on February 01, 2003, 05:39:49 pm
Please, be patient. I\'m sure someone will.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on February 01, 2003, 08:30:49 pm
I sent a friend of mine a private message too.  Maybe he will.  He is a really good designer, and knows some VB too.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on February 04, 2003, 12:25:28 pm
OK.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Pc_Madness on February 10, 2003, 10:31:32 am
Hows it going guys? Started coding yet?  If not, my suggestion would be to look into that first.

Just bumping these two threads to see whats going on. :)  No activity for the past 6 days in both threads. :(


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: aafuss on February 10, 2003, 10:45:13 am
I\'ve been wondering if there has been any deveklopments in the KidOS project lately.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Pc_Madness on February 10, 2003, 10:51:21 am
To be honest it looks like there going about it the wrong way... but thats my opinion. :)

Icons are an Interface thing, which should be left till last.  Whats the point in designing a lovely interface, which a heap of icons ready if you can\'t even code it.

Also, what language are u doing it in?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on February 10, 2003, 12:24:09 pm
VB :)

Well, IMO children don\'t care about how efficient the code is, they want the interface. I suspect there will be an interim release...


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on February 10, 2003, 02:52:10 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Pc_Madness
To be honest it looks like there going about it the wrong way... but thats my opinion. :)

Icons are an Interface thing, which should be left till last.  Whats the point in designing a lovely interface, which a heap of icons ready if you can\'t even code it.

Also, what language are u doing it in?
There is no doubt in my mind that we can code this thing.  The problem is that it is so interface-centric (if that is not a word, then I just created it), that we need to decide what at least the specs will be for icons and buttons.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on February 10, 2003, 03:40:59 pm
I will try to design the basic specs for the interface this week.  I have some stuff on paper, but I will try to hammer it out.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on February 10, 2003, 07:33:00 pm
Thanks...

Remember, the UI is the most important thing here, as we are simply providing a shell for Windows\' basic functions. Windows will do most work.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on February 10, 2003, 07:38:39 pm
Exactly...I don\'t think it will be very difficult at all to code.  The hard part for us is making it look good :D


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: aafuss on February 10, 2003, 08:48:04 pm
It\'s excellent to see that blindlizard is going to work out the specs for the KidOS interface this wok-and afte that we can get work on the ciooding very soon.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Pc_Madness on February 12, 2003, 02:46:01 am
Ok, just a tip, ever heard of LaunchPad? Its seriously old now... 7-8 years?  It came with my Compaq, as an attempt to make things easier for children.

Basically, Parents had complete control over programs that children were able to access.  As well as that, there was this little world thing where kids could click on a tree for example, and it would come alive.

Abit gay.... but.... :D

The main interface was a car dash board, which was also interactive, like the horn. :)


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on February 12, 2003, 04:03:35 am
I think we want to keep some of the basic interface of windows because eventually these kids will be working in regular windows.  I think what you are saying is a bit more complicated than we are going for.  What does everyone else think?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on February 12, 2003, 12:19:08 pm
Well, I suggest we offer those themes, one for normal Windows, and one for the stripped-down LaunchPad-type UI.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on February 14, 2003, 03:23:59 pm
I am not going to be able to finish up the specs this week.  I have a paying side project that needs attention to get finished.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: aafuss on February 14, 2003, 09:00:45 pm
Well, has anyone got any good ideas/mocckups of what they think the Kidos desktop could look like?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on February 15, 2003, 03:38:52 am
Well, since none of us are paying or getting paid, we can wait.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on February 15, 2003, 05:09:19 pm
I\'ll jump on it as soon as I can.  In the mean time, some one can build a browser, and look for games and stuff to package with it.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on February 21, 2003, 09:53:09 pm
Just keeping this project alive...

Also, someone should write the theme engine.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: aafuss on February 22, 2003, 09:38:28 pm
Why not ask some devel;opers-they mayn haver code to be used for the tmhem e engione.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on February 27, 2003, 01:20:25 am
If I remember correctly, we\'re the only developers. Cbond and techgnome appearently deserted us :(


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Pc_Madness on February 27, 2003, 05:27:06 am
Well, I be a tester or something along those lines, but I don\'t have much time to do coding though. :(


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: aafuss on February 27, 2003, 07:16:23 am
Wait a minute-we\'l acquire fior the softqware griupi have.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Pc_Madness on February 27, 2003, 07:19:28 am
I\'m afraid I can only read English, not jibberish Mr Aafuss. :confused:


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on February 27, 2003, 12:04:03 pm
Translated:

Quote
Wait a minute-we\'l acquire fior the softqware griupi have.

No, I don\'t think so. That group is completely focused on something else. The only thing you need to acquire is a spell checker :D


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on February 27, 2003, 03:56:27 pm
aafuss, Just slow down when you type, and read it before you post.  I am not going to have much time if at all.  I got laid off, but found an investor of a product I had built/am building.  I will be very busy.  Osnr, do you want to desgin the specs for the interface?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on February 27, 2003, 08:22:11 pm
Sorry, I will have less time in the very near future (or maybe none). Can anyone take care of the specs and ideas? Perhaps we could contact techgnome or cbond.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: aafuss on February 27, 2003, 08:40:42 pm
Well, if it does staganate- i can acquire and do some pparts for it.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on February 27, 2003, 09:29:23 pm
What we need is for someone to make up the specs on the interface.  Decide what the navigation bar will look like, where it will go, what size the icons need to be for the buttons, etc... Then we can all look at them and come to an agreement.  I have time to look at stuff, but not really to do the work.  Once we all agree on the specs, we can find people to write the code.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: aafuss on February 28, 2003, 08:04:09 am
Here is my idea:
it uses a stansard ms toolbar and status/list view contrpls-icons should be able to use different sizes.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on March 01, 2003, 01:37:25 am
No! Kids won\'t know how to use something like that. Besides, it will be awfully hard to skin a premade control.

I think we should make our own custom skinnable controls, with help from graphic designers. We can make a big launch toolbar and mount it at the top of the screen (customizable), and put pictures on it (games, writing, etc.) which would launch a My Computer-like window with 48x48 icons.

The login screen can be like XP, but with a divider line between parents and children\'s accounts.

For the games, it\'s basically Shell it. If someone wants to write a document, we bring up MS Word (with a simplifier add-in), or WordPad. I don\'t think spreadsheets and databases would be useful, but we could add PowerPoint support for older kids.

Finally, for the younger kids there will be a MSAgent guide who will read anything when it is clicked on. I think 6+ kids can read themselves.

Of course, the parent will have to enter the age during setup, as well as birthday. Then we can easily increase the age and level of the UI with every passing year.

Admittedly, this won\'t be easy or quick. But I think we can manage it.

I hope you like my ideas. Anything else?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: aafuss on March 01, 2003, 04:06:28 am
Great!-ARE they easy to do.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on March 01, 2003, 04:11:44 am
No.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on March 05, 2003, 03:12:22 am
I agree.  We need to make our own custom controls.  Hey aafuss, I know you are chomping at the bit to start coding, why don\'t you work on the big launch tool bar.  It needs to be customizable so that we can specify how many buttons it will have at run time.  Then it needs to know what the screen resolution is and only display enough buttons to fit the screen.  Also, you need to be able to scroll forward and backward through the buttons.
Make it as an ActiveX control that we can import into the interface.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: techgnome on March 05, 2003, 05:06:36 pm
I \"bailed\" because I felt that things quickly spiraled outta control and generated into a \"I wanna do it _my_ way\" argument and I got tired of it.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on March 05, 2003, 07:14:31 pm
So are you still out?  I think that argument is resolved.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: techgnome on March 05, 2003, 10:52:58 pm
At this time, I\'m still out, sorry. Just don\'t really have the time....


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on March 08, 2003, 01:18:57 am
Besides, many projects become arguments and resolve, then become projects again. It\'s very common.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on March 13, 2003, 06:55:36 pm
Trying to keep the thread alive here:

Affuss, are you building the toolbar?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on April 15, 2003, 07:13:59 pm
Resurrecting the thread...


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on April 15, 2003, 07:14:20 pm
Any news blindlizard, aafuss?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on April 16, 2003, 03:12:53 am
Well, aafuss was all excited to get coding, but he never said if he was going to start or not.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on April 19, 2003, 08:47:31 pm
Sigh... we seriously need someone to sketch a design or something. This project could go dormant...


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on April 21, 2003, 02:00:43 am
Yup


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on April 21, 2003, 03:14:27 am
OK.. let\'s assign positions:

blindlizard: Project Manager
Osnr: Assistant Manager (I suppose it\'s because cbond and techgnome are out and aafuss isn\'t a frequent).
aafuss: Developer
cbond: Developer (he hasn\'t said he quit)


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on April 21, 2003, 03:15:23 am
cool


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: aafuss on April 22, 2003, 09:56:25 am
I\'m thinking we should not support Win 95 systems-it\'sunsupoirted by MS, at least Win 98 shopuld be required. Anyway, when I get some time-I might do some kidos desktop porotpe forms, you could do the same too.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on April 22, 2003, 02:32:35 pm
hm...Good point.

However I think we can allow Win95 as long as they have IE4+


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on April 22, 2003, 03:57:11 pm
We need to go as low as we possibly can becuase most people\'s kids get the old 486


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on April 22, 2003, 05:40:40 pm
I\'m not sure about that... It\'s mostly shared in my experiences...

Time to define levels:

3-4: Agent assistance, big buttons with graphics, easy games, all-capital letters, one-click web site games

5-6: Voice assistance, icons, medium games, normal letters, windows, full web sites with narration

7-8: No voice assistance (they can read it), full windowed UI, username & password, double-click icons, normal fonts, simple control panel, simple start menu, standard IE/Netscape with content advisor, access to fun-only type games, programs menu

9-12: More powerful control panel,  better start menu, the now small app buttons morph into quicklaunch, study program list, full Windows login

13-14: standard Windows UI, KidOS turns into content filter, chat allowed

15-17: KidOS becomes less strict: more chat rooms

18 and up: KidOS is gone.

Like it?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on April 23, 2003, 02:08:44 am
I think keep the Agent/Voice for all ages up to 9-12.  Also, I think we should have a simple smilies type chat for 3-6.  Then turn it into a text chat after 7.  However, all chatting should be limited to other KidOS users that have been authorized by the parent.
Other than that, I think it looks great.  Good work Osnr


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on April 23, 2003, 02:47:11 pm
Ok, guys.  We really do need to get on this for purely selfish reasons on my part.  I am having a new computer built today, and my 5 year old is getting my old one.  I am putting it in his room. :D


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on April 23, 2003, 02:49:35 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Osnr
I\'m not sure about that... It\'s mostly shared in my experiences...

Time to define levels:

3-4: Agent assistance, big buttons with graphics, easy games, all-capital letters, one-click web site games

5-6: Voice assistance, icons, medium games, normal letters, windows, full web sites with narration

7-8: No voice assistance (they can read it), full windowed UI, username & password, double-click icons, normal fonts, simple control panel, simple start menu, standard IE/Netscape with content advisor, access to fun-only type games, programs menu

9-12: More powerful control panel,  better start menu, the now small app buttons morph into quicklaunch, study program list, full Windows login

13-14: standard Windows UI, KidOS turns into content filter, chat allowed

15-17: KidOS becomes less strict: more chat rooms

18 and up: KidOS is gone.

Like it?
I just thought of something too Onsr, all these need to be options that can be turned on and off for any age.  So, if a 3 can magically read, then they could turn of the Agent\'s voice.  If a 15 is illiterate, they could turn it on.  So, these work for defaults, but we need to be able to set each one individually.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on April 23, 2003, 04:25:14 pm
Ok, check this out.  This is a rough draft of the tool bar.  It is no where near complete, but I wanted to get something started to revive the project.

The images are just samples that come with Visual Studio.  They are loaded through an ini file.  Right now the structure is basic, and not set in stone.

What I see happening is that when KidOS loads, the form will show the tool bar at the top and what ever the first image in the tool bar is will determine what is loaded in the main part of the form.  So, if the first image in the tool bar is games, then all the game icons will load in the \"desktop area\" of the main form.  When the child clicks the next item in the too bar, say music, then icons for all the music will show in the desktop area, etc...

I think we need to keep it simple because the kids aren\'t getting on the computer to use KidOS, but to run thier programs.  KidOS just makes it easier for them to access things, and gives the parents control of content.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on April 24, 2003, 01:37:55 pm
Great ideas blindlizard!  I won\'t be here for a day, so keep it up...


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on April 24, 2003, 02:29:05 pm
I am trying to finallize the set up of the INI file for the Tool Bar.  I think it is not going to be for just the bar anymore.  I think it will have all the \"Theme\" information.  Right now I am shooting for this:

In the App.Path, the folder structre will be ThemesTHEME_NAME
Inside the THEME_NAME forlder, there will be 2 folders 1 called Buttons and the other called Icons.  Alos, there will be an ini file called theme.ini  Theme.ini will contain the following information (as much as I could think of last night at 2 am)

[General]
ThemeTitle=
GroupCount=  \'This is the number of buttons on the tool bar

[Group0]
Title=
ButtonImage= \'Name of images stored in the Buttons folder

[Group1]
Title=
ButtonImage=

[Detail0] \'These are the icons for the first Group
IconCount=2
IconTitle0=
IconImage0= \'Name of image stored in the Icons folder
IconExe0=
IconTitle1=
IconImage1=
IconExe1=

[Detail1] \'These are the icons for the second Group
IconCount=2
IconTitle0=
IconImage0=
IconExe0=
IconTitle1=
IconImage1=
IconExe1=


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on April 24, 2003, 10:56:21 pm
Why not use skins? I seriously think this is a good application for skins...


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on April 25, 2003, 02:28:12 am
Well, I see this more like Windows themes because we are changing Icon size, text size, and color schemes.  I am thinking like when you go into Display Properties and Click Appearance.   Then change the scheme to like Windows Standard (extra large).  Lets hear your ideas though.  How would you go about skinning?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on April 25, 2003, 06:02:54 pm
Well, skinning is only for 6 and under...

We can use VBAccelerator\'s control, and we\'ll get some developers to write an editor

-or-

We can buy a skinning package for VB.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on April 25, 2003, 06:06:50 pm
Also, yes, we need them to be customizable. However, I\'d suggest keep the UI style permanant for each age: If a 3 yr. old can read, he\'ll still like big, colorful buttons: When they get old enough, we\'ll let kids download themes.

EDIT:
Chat is good too. I\'d suggest automatic voice/video chat for all ages.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on April 25, 2003, 08:36:48 pm
Video/Voice is a awsome idea!

As long as they can customize everything from button size to colors then it doesn\'t matter what we chnage at what age.  they can change it back.  Maybe propt before we do it.

Can you build an example of the VBAccelerator sknning system?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on April 26, 2003, 04:22:16 pm
Oh: another thing!

We need to allow the parents to enter info on the children.

Because if they enter birth date, we can customize the UI automatically.

Also, I was thinking of something: what if, for the really young children, they get an Microsoft Bob-type thing?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on April 26, 2003, 04:23:07 pm
What is that?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on April 26, 2003, 04:29:19 pm
Ok, I glanced at the VBAccelerator skinning component.  I think that would be cool.  I didn\'t look to close at it, but sounds fun.  I think we should skin for all ages.  They can also choose Windows default if they want.  Do you know if the control allows for changing the size of objects?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on April 27, 2003, 12:43:53 pm
You can just change the control properties, can\'t you?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on April 27, 2003, 05:47:49 pm
Oh, yeah your right.  I need to download the control and play with it.  We also need programmers.  Where is aaffuss?  I think Cbond is out.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on April 27, 2003, 06:17:15 pm
Me too. Come on people, it\'s for the kids! If they don\'t learn to use PCs, then the next generation will be hard to live through!


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on April 27, 2003, 06:17:34 pm
I mean, I think he\'s out too.

Also: Remember to update KidOS project admins and the like on SourceForge. Don\'t throw cbond out now, he might return.

Also, we have to use our 100 MB of SourceForge web space for a site...

Let\'s work on the site now. Aafuss, you, and I can work out a good design for our site. Any suggestions?

EDIT: I\'m posting a dummy page. Check it out at  (http://)


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on April 30, 2003, 03:10:46 pm
Blindlizard? Your posts lost?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on April 30, 2003, 03:11:30 pm
huh?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on April 30, 2003, 03:12:04 pm
Well, just reply anyway.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on April 30, 2003, 03:15:57 pm
How do I take techghome off, and change you to admin?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on April 30, 2003, 03:21:23 pm
Ok, I got it.  Techgnome is off, and you are admin now.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on April 30, 2003, 03:22:05 pm
How do we update our SourceForge website?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on April 30, 2003, 03:23:51 pm
Go to Admin Members, remove techgnome\'s project admin. flag, then delete him. Do the opposite to me.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on April 30, 2003, 03:24:19 pm
Got it, thanks


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on April 30, 2003, 03:28:01 pm
 (http://)


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on April 30, 2003, 06:04:32 pm
Hey Osnr, can you post a new request at VBforums for developers to help?  I don\'t think they will take it seriously from me :D


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on April 30, 2003, 06:04:34 pm
Hey Osnr, can you post a new request at VBforums fro developers to help?  I don\'t think they will take it seriously from me :D


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on April 30, 2003, 10:13:00 pm
Nope, sorry. I\'m out of the other place. (we don\'t use VBF*r*m* here)


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on May 01, 2003, 07:05:10 am
I\'m not saying to use them, just get some developers from them.  Good change to convert more to GalahTech.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on May 01, 2003, 10:51:55 pm
Here posting there is considered a serious crime that can be fined by a tick.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on May 02, 2003, 12:45:19 am
I post on both all the time.  I like this one better, but so far 9 times out of 10 my question never gets answered here and most always answered there.  I refuse to be slave to any one board.  I go where I can get the answer!


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on May 02, 2003, 08:23:48 pm
So where are we at on this?   Is anyone going to code?  Onsr, can work up a test skin with the vbAccelerator control?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: aafuss on May 02, 2003, 11:23:18 pm
I just visited the KidOS sourceforge  dummy page-I hope it\'ll be approved-maybe a different colour for the page background-and for it-a logo for KidOS.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on May 03, 2003, 12:21:12 am
approved?  Does some one have to approve it??  Oh, and hi aafuss, glad to see you back :)


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on May 03, 2003, 02:12:29 am
No it doesn\'t have to be approved...

Anyway I just found out MS is reportedly trying to put out a \"kid\" user account in the next Windows release. I hope this won\'t be direct competition, maybe we can integrate it in.

This includes a Parental Control system, already programmed by Microsoft.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on May 03, 2003, 06:24:12 am
How much do you think Microsoft know about kids?  Anyway, we all know that people with Kids are not going to run out and buy a new OS for them.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on May 03, 2003, 02:31:59 pm
They know a LOT about kids, believe me. However, this is a WinXP successor, and XP support will run out within a year of that Windows\'s release.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on May 03, 2003, 05:48:52 pm
Which is all fine, but we need to focus on the people that give thier kids thier old win 98 machines, or that run older os\'s.  I still refuse to run XP myself.  I think it sucks, 2K is the best thing they have put out.  They will have to make the next OS much better than XP to get me.  Anyway, I still think KidOS is a great idea.  Now lets get it going.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on May 03, 2003, 07:48:09 pm
XP isn\'t all theme, you can make it\'s UI classic, speeding it up quite a bit. Windows Server 2003 is proof of this.

Anyway, we\'ll need minimum requirements:

80MHz Pentium
50MB hard drive
32MB memory


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on May 04, 2003, 03:31:28 am
I still hate the tool bar, it is not exactly \"Classic\" when you take the lame Fischer Price theme off.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on May 04, 2003, 12:15:04 pm
 (http://)

Oh, and while we\'re still on that topic it is not Fisher Price. The colors aren\'t nearly related, and you\'re even spelling it wrong. I don\'t know who thought of that, but it doesn\'t fit for sure.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: aafuss on May 04, 2003, 11:18:54 pm
Basically-the link Osnr gfave us is for an app whicxh only supports 2000/XP systems ponly-we could create somethung quite similar to that or make sure kidos is compatible which most systems.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on May 04, 2003, 11:46:50 pm
D\'OH!

It\'s for blindlizard\'s XP question, WE HAVE NO interest in IE or Windows Explorer, in fact we\'re eliminating it.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on May 05, 2003, 02:49:58 am
There no set Fisher Price colors no matter how you spell it.  All I am saying is that XP does little more than change the look of 2K.  Anyway, this has nothing to to with KidOS.  And what exactly is that link for???


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: dancingmonkey on May 05, 2003, 04:49:23 am
Quote
Originally posted by Osnr
D\'OH!

It\'s for blindlizard\'s XP question, WE HAVE NO interest in IE or Windows Explorer, in fact we\'re eliminating it.

So, you are going to use \"Mozilla Firebird\" AKA \"Phoenix\"? It\'s almost as fast as Internet Explorer, free, and supports Navigator plug-ins, and it seems to be gettng smaller.

It\'ll be fun getting the system requirements down to 80MHz, 32mb ram. I\'ve seen extremely low-end systems in schools around here, the lowest I\'ve seen are p200\'s with 32mb of ram, if that\'s anything towards the subject.

There is a distrobution center in town that dispurese used systems to non-profits, and I hope schools. All p200s and up, seems that they expired.

If your writing a shell, everyone has a unused copy of windows 95...


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on May 05, 2003, 11:05:12 am
Sigh....

We\'re not going through a BROWSER WAR or something here... This is a KID-FRIENDLY SHELL. Why the hell would a kid care about which browser?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on May 05, 2003, 05:38:30 pm
And it is not even really a shell.  More like a mask over Windows.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: dancingmonkey on May 05, 2003, 05:41:00 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Osnr
Sigh....

We\'re not going through a BROWSER WAR or something here... This is a KID-FRIENDLY SHELL. Why the hell would a kid care about which browser?

I\'m not saying any one browser is better, but arn\'t \"we\" going to use a browser? You said earlier that you weren\'t going to use IE... You have to use something. And besides, phoenix is opensource, so you could build into it (if someone in here knows C) a lock to keep everything secure.

I know it\'s a shell, but something will have to be used in the shell.

I support AnyBrowser.com. I\'m not browsest! Stop looking at me!


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on May 05, 2003, 09:04:06 pm
We were talking about the IE program. The engine is completely different.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on May 08, 2003, 07:23:07 pm
I think MS has provided us with everything we need right in Windows.  We just need to modify the interface for children.  I think we are opening up a can of worms if we start adding a lot of third party stuff.  I realy don\'t want to end up like Linux. :)


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: dancingmonkey on May 08, 2003, 07:42:15 pm
So, is anything started? This is starting to sound like LainOS, all talk no development. Though they did do something, but then they junked it. But this is VB, not too hard to modify.

Software, it\'s like bread; It gets stail. :notw:

:hide:


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on May 08, 2003, 09:47:02 pm
If you want to keep monitoring this thread, please do not post, or join the project. We don\'t want constant interruption.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on May 08, 2003, 09:50:58 pm
For one thing, we\'re (sort of) stalling for developers, except it\'s useful stalling since we get ideas.

COME ON!

Is it more important to have a space game, or a Windows interface for kids. If you have sense at all, you\'ll choose the latter. Why isn\'t anyone joining?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on May 09, 2003, 03:40:23 am
Quote
Originally posted by dancingmonkey
So, is anything started? This is starting to sound like LainOS, all talk no development. Though they did do something, but then they junked it. But this is VB, not too hard to modify.

Software, it\'s like bread; It gets stail. :notw:

:hide:
We need to know what we are doing before we start coding.  Too many \"VB Programmers\" code to early.  We need to know who wants to be involved so that we can assign roles.  This is what we are waiting for.  Nothing is getting stail because we haven\'t decided on the recipe to make the bread yet.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on May 09, 2003, 11:20:14 pm
Agreed. And aafuss, please inform us of your schedule. We can\'t have developers popping up every few posts.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on May 09, 2003, 11:21:14 pm
So dancingmonkey do you want to be a developer....if so, what are your skills?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: aafuss on May 10, 2003, 06:27:48 am
I plan to do some launcher/toolbar designs in June.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on May 10, 2003, 03:57:03 pm
Schedule please? We need to know when you\'ll be popping up Aafuss. AND PLEASE do not do a launcher. We don\'t have graphics or developers. And no, paint won\'t do.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on May 10, 2003, 09:21:46 pm
We need to decide on the themeing / skinning.  Osnr, do you want to spec this out.  We can really build anything until we all understand the frame work.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on May 10, 2003, 09:46:52 pm
Sorry guys, reformatted, and now I can\'t find my VB6 Product Key. I\'ll get back to you when it\'s installed.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on May 11, 2003, 05:56:02 pm
Let me know if you need one.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on May 15, 2003, 08:29:50 pm
recreating the thread


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on May 15, 2003, 09:57:25 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Osnr
recreating the thread
Where?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on May 15, 2003, 11:26:47 pm
Any ideas?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on May 15, 2003, 11:33:12 pm
What is wrong with this one?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on May 16, 2003, 12:41:48 am
What I\'m saying is, we need a more focused place to talk. It\'s kinda annoying to have \"NoisyPlanet\" playing tag with us and me wondering if someone joined the project.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on May 16, 2003, 03:47:46 pm
I hear what you are saying, but we need to do it where others can observe, and possibly join in down the road.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on May 16, 2003, 06:43:58 pm
I understand. Now let\'s get back to important matters.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on May 16, 2003, 06:48:16 pm
We need to decide on a layout.  Is everyone ok with the big tool bar on the top and then the \"desktop\" below?  The desktop changes based on the button clicked on the tool bar.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on May 16, 2003, 07:01:03 pm
Sounds quite good, I think we need to use 48x48 single-click icons.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on May 16, 2003, 07:33:53 pm
Done!  Now we need to figure out the skinning/themeing.  I really don\'t have the time to read all the stuff about the control from vbaccelerator.  Can you build a small example using it, so that everyone doesn\'t have to go to their site and learn it?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on May 16, 2003, 09:44:47 pm
They pre-wrote one already :thumb:


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on May 16, 2003, 10:22:52 pm
Shoot the link over


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on May 16, 2003, 10:41:12 pm
The normal description page, you can download it there :confused:


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: aafuss on May 17, 2003, 04:23:53 am
Great idea for the interface-desktop chanhges when a buton is clicked. I have got \'work experience\'  (IT realted-in sa computer shop) on Wednesdays-so  win\';t be able to post then.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on May 17, 2003, 04:54:47 am
Um... IT is far, far more complicated than that. You should get hands-on experience with a C variant.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on May 20, 2003, 06:31:28 pm
Ok, so we are going to go with the vbAccelerator skinning control, and one of these days I am going to chek it out and understand it, but for now lets leave it on the back burner.

Here is a list of things that need done:

We need that top tool bar done.  It needs to read an ini file (which the format of needs to be determined), and populate the dirfferent sections. Then based on which section is clicked, te desktop changes.  We need another ini file that holds all the programs for that section.  i.e, the child clicks on the games icon on the tool bar.  Then their desktop changes to display all the game icons.

We also need to build in the MS Agent and text to voice so that anything done can be vocal.

we need a chat program that will allow the children to talk to each other with a mic, as well as type and send emoticons.

Finally, we need to develop the login.  I know we talked about this a lot, but I really don\'t remember what we decided.  Can anyone stir my memory?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on May 22, 2003, 01:09:07 am
Resurrected the thread. We decided to replace the login with our own, and auto-login Windows to hide that one. Though there is the interesting problem of domains and home-offices which need security :(


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on May 22, 2003, 01:09:15 pm
I think let the parents choose.  They can have it auto login and use our login screen, or they can run our app manually after they log the machine in.  I personally would use this method on my machine, so the kids aren\'t on it when I don\'t want them to be.  On the otehr hand, I would want my 5 year olds machine to just log him in.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on May 22, 2003, 06:48:12 pm
Another option: put our app in startup with autologin to somone\'s account. That colud be in the setup program. While we\'re on that, which setup method are we using?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on May 23, 2003, 04:46:41 pm
I figured Inno Setup.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on May 23, 2003, 04:47:45 pm
Guys I keep having trouble getting to GalahTech.  I keep getting a DNS error.  Somewhere a DNS server is wrong, but I hope I don\'t perminetly lose you guys.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on May 23, 2003, 06:36:47 pm
Quote
Originally posted by blindlizard
I figured Inno Setup.

Me too. But we\'ll need to use ISX or IS4 beta.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on May 23, 2003, 07:57:37 pm
Oh, is Inno going to include scripting in its next realease?  I figured ISX, but if Inno is going to included it we may want to take a look at it.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on May 23, 2003, 08:00:44 pm
It will. Read the newsgroups. Go to the website and click on Inno Setup 4.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on May 23, 2003, 09:06:21 pm
Cool, well lets plan on ISX, but if Inno 4 comes out of beta when we are ready to release, then lets go with Inno 4.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on May 23, 2003, 09:56:04 pm
OK, we need developers. We need more places to advertise.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on May 24, 2003, 06:55:09 am
I posted at these boards:
 (http://)
 (http://)
 (http://)
And I will add something about it on my site.

Hey Osnr, when I try to get to SourceForge here  (http://), I get a 404 file not found error. Can you find out why? Also, can you get rid of the bad link you have on the first post of this thread? It takes you to spam popup hell.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on May 24, 2003, 02:58:45 pm
I did. And it works.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on May 24, 2003, 09:23:07 pm
The first link you have on the first post of this thread is still bad, can you update it?  Thanks.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on May 25, 2003, 12:08:51 am
It works for me, no problems here. Your link below is wrong, you need to add a a slash (/) at the end.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on May 25, 2003, 03:19:54 am
Quote
Originally posted by Osnr
This is the official project communication thread for KidOS. See our SourceForge entry at  (http://).

Web site page with list of KidOS sites:  (http://)
My link is fine, your first link above says souceforge not souRceforge


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on June 02, 2003, 11:06:59 am
[chants]
Re-vive! Re-vive!
[/chants]

WE NEED DEVELOPERS.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on June 03, 2003, 06:47:52 pm
Bump. Anything new?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on June 03, 2003, 08:27:10 pm
I\'m in Phoenix for the next week or so on business.  I probably won\'t be around until I get back home.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Carp on June 13, 2003, 12:07:26 am
I didn\'t want to read all this haha.  Whatis it being programmed in?  C?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on June 14, 2003, 03:53:46 am
GAH! IT\'S A FREAKING SHELL!

And it\'s being done in VB.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on June 14, 2003, 02:14:23 pm
It is kind of a Psudeo Shell.  It is a interface for children that will be easier for them to navigate, talk, etc, and it will protect the computer from them getting into something they shouldn\'t like the WINNT or Windows folder.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on June 14, 2003, 06:19:53 pm
I think we should give a bit more power to 6+ kids, like being able to change their UI, disable Agent, and so on.

There are problems, such as the fact that XP only comes with one visual style, Luna.

HOWEVER we can include the uxtheme.dll patcher ( (http://)), and bundle a few bright and colorful themes. Of course if the patcher doesn\'t work, we can include an \"XP Themer Readme\" file that explains the manual process.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on June 14, 2003, 09:49:09 pm
I don\'t understand what you are saying about XP themes.  I can\'t stand XP and I don\'t use it, so I don\'t know what you are talking about.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on June 16, 2003, 10:31:05 pm
OK, there is an uxhtme.dll replacement that lets you ADD other themes to XP. That is my point. The fact is, kids don\'t want to use a PC with a boring-looking Classic theme on non-KidOS windows.

The other options are:

1. Make our own skinning app; this will be way too hard
2. Rewrite the GDI; don\'t even think about it
3. Keep it normal; good option for kids who mostly play fullscreen

Obviously, replacing UXTHEME and keeping it normal are the best options.

I have another idea, why don\'t we make a survey? After all, we might find out that most PCs for kids run DOS or something.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on June 18, 2003, 03:02:47 am
I thought we were using the vbaccelerator skinning control.  Are we not?!?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Dragon on June 18, 2003, 05:57:20 pm
Well im willing to help programming with KidOS im best at network stuff and the somewhat more technical stuff. Im not good at design. Well thats about it, i live in the netherlands btw...


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on June 18, 2003, 11:09:14 pm
Quote
I thought we were using the vbaccelerator skinning control.  Are we not?!?
Please read carefully. It's for outside apps.

And Dragon, you are welcome to join. All help is appreciated.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on June 20, 2003, 12:59:37 am
I think we are getting ahead of ourselves.  I don't think we need to mess with 3rd party apps.  The ones kids will be using are already designed for kids.  Like the Dora the Explorer games my kids play.

btw, does anyone else hate the new Galahtech format?


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on June 20, 2003, 02:40:58 am
Not me. I hated the last one. This one is much more neat and clean. Choose a different skin, that's your problem.  Purple makes me throw up now that I use  the sky one.


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on June 21, 2003, 07:09:20 am
It's not the color, it the feel.  I changed the theme to the blue one, it is really cool.  I just hate the new interface all together.  Plus I am not subscribed to my threads anymore.  I have to go find them!! :crash:


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on July 12, 2003, 02:23:46 am
Sorry, but I can't find time for this anymore. Hopefully you'll find new developers (maybe aafuss will resurface).


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: blindlizard on July 12, 2003, 05:54:32 am
I can't either, I guess I will put it in hibernation for now. :wave:


Title: KidOS Communication
Post by: Osnr on July 14, 2003, 12:05:42 am
Give me a PM when you're ready to bring it back up, I'm closing the thread so no junk gets in.